Transitioning out of clinical medicine: Harvey Castro - Physician, Author, Entrepreneur
Harvey is curious, kind and humble. He is a physician, healthcare consultant, and serial entrepreneur with extensive experience in the healthcare industry.
He is the author of ChatGPT Healthcare and Success Reinvention. We talk about
His journey out of clinical medicine
Entrepreneurship
Perseverance
Profitability in healthcare
I had an amazing time talking with him and am thankful for his generosity with his time.
Transcript:
Rishad: [00:00:00] Hi Harvey. Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm really looking forward to this. To get started, I think let's just get right into it. I'm at a point in my life where I am transitioning out of clinical medicine while building up my side gigs. And enjoying things. I'm building up angel investing newsletters, podcasts, getting more intervention capital, but I'm struggling with expenses and family life as I transition, and I feel like I'm at a point where I could turn, transition and make enough money with my side gigs in about a year or so, but I'm having a hard time balancing, uh, clinical.
Rishad: Venture Capital Podcast, news Letter, and Family Life. Talk to me about your translation from clinical medicine to where you are now and how did you build those passive income, uh, models in your life?
Harvey: You know, that's a tough question. Uh, first of all, thanks for having me. And, [00:01:00] um, I, I, that's a question that I, I, I personally struggle with.
Harvey: So how I did it, uh, early on in my career, I knew emergency medicine. It was not for me if the sense that it wasn't for me when I was 70 years old, I knew that I could not do that forever. And so I knew my lifespan as an ER doctor was gonna be short. And um, later in my career when I was hiring physicians and I had some physicians that were in their mid sixties, seventies, and they.
Harvey: Would tell me, Hey, I live paycheck to paycheck. I thought in my mind, I I, I cannot be in that place at that age. I, it is just so much stress on your body. And so to answer your question, it goes back to a fundamental, I love Bridge Dad poor debt. And I took the, the principles, which is basically everything I bought.
Harvey: I was always trying to buy assets and all my debt. I was really strict on getting rid of. And one of my good friends, uh, she happened to be the vice president of a large financial company, and she [00:02:00] gave me some really good advice and she basically said, Harvey, before you start investing, make sure your debt is gone because the minute your debt is gone, then that way, that day forward.
Harvey: Anything you make every month is just a surplus. And then now you can play with that money, and now you can, uh, use that for, for invent, uh, ventures and, and things. So my same advice to you o o Obviously I'm not a financial planner. This is just a friend advice to another friend saying, Hey, if I were you, I would consider just hitting all your debt Now.
Harvey: Um, and with that said, balance is key. Uh, it's funny you mentioned that today because I literally am working on an article as we speak about balance. You know, h how do you find that sweet spot? And for me personally, I've been working hard on losing weight and lately, uh, the last month or so, I, I lost balance.
Harvey: And I've been just focused on working to the point where I look at the scale and I'm like, wow, uh, I'm starting to gain weight again and [00:03:00] I need to find. And so for me personally, um, , I keep saying Monday, but the following Monday I plan on start working out. Um, I've started, uh, eating cleaner again and I've started working out, uh, on that side, but I know I need to work out.
Harvey: And so hopefully that kind of sheds a little light for you.
Rishad: It definitely does. Harvey, let's go back to your finishing residency or you've just finished residency. You're starting your emergency medicine career, and you have this realization that emergency medicine is not for you and perhaps medicine is not for you.
Rishad: Talk me through how that realization came to be and what did you do right after you realized.
Harvey: You know, I, I think I realized this from day one, applying to er, uh, I just loved it so much that I wasn't gonna give up. That that passion and that passion for medicine for me was never gonna go away. So my goal was always to whatever I did, to stay in healthcare, and I'll take that to [00:04:00] the next level.
Harvey: Um, I knew that to be successful, you have to do what you know. And so you and I are physicians. We know he. It would be really, really difficult if we did another vertical that had nothing to do with healthcare. Not that we can't do it, we are in the top 1%, meaning we study, we we've, we, we have the grit in us to make it.
Harvey: But how I made that decision honestly was family. Uh, I wanted time with my family to, my definition of success was how much time do I get with family? Am I consumed by all the things I buy and all the debt that I have that I get to the point where I was living paycheck to paycheck and paying credit card and living off of credit cards, and I thought, I am making so much money.
Harvey: How? In debt, how, how is this happening? And so pretty quickly I decided I need to step back, analyze what I'm doing, and really start focusing on buying assets and investing. And at that point I [00:05:00] started looking at what I'm good at, which was, uh, emergency medicine. I was blessed then at the time, uh, freestanding ERs in Texas were starting to uh, boom.
Harvey: And so I invested in a company, actually several different companies in this space. . Um, and that was helpful because that was helping me get some passive income, uh, that I wouldn't have had otherwise.
Rishad: Talk to me about your investment strategy. What do you look for in these assets and how long is your diligence process?
Harvey: That's a good question. Um, so on the dil diligence process, uh, it varies. Uh, obviously for me, if it's in the healthcare space and specifically er, then the due diligence to some extent has already been, been done because I know the space, I know the demand, I know the, uh, the profit margins, and so then I know how to look at that as an entity and see if, if that's something to do or not.
Harvey: And I could do it pretty quickly as far as an assessment. Uh, what was the first question [00:06:00] again? I know that was the second part. What was the first.
Rishad: What is your investment strategy? How do you pick these assets? If you were to say, these are the three things I look for that are most important, this is one red flag, what would
Harvey: that be?
Harvey: Got it. My investment strategy is, uh, I try my best to diversify, but I'm probably over the, uh, focused on healthcare and I'm probably overly focused in, uh, digital aspect of healthcare and startups. So that, that is a risk that I know I'm taking. Uh, some of the red flags that I have, uh, come to learn from either bad mistakes that I've done in the past is I've really focused on the team and the ip.
Harvey: Uh, protection, meaning if I see a startup that has a wonderful idea, but I look at the team, and the team for me doesn't convince me of what their goal is, then as much as I love the idea, I will not invest because I, I strongly believe a, a strong team can make a difference, um, in the sense that they may [00:07:00] be going down a certain route.
Harvey: Um, but example Covid hit, they had to pivot. And if they don't have a strong team, they're not gonna pivot and they may. Uh, another red flag for me is just looking at the. And, and what does that mean to me is looking at their website, looking at their email, looking at their, uh, correspondence, looking at how they represent themselves if they represent themselves and it's not professional.
Harvey: For example, I was looking at an IT company that I wanted to invest, and the idea sounded great, but when I went to their website, I felt like the website was, did not reflect the technology that they were working on. And to me, that mismatch. To me meant, uh, a flag. Because if that's the case, then consumers will see that.
Harvey: Or if they're not taking pride, and I'll take it another step in their work, then how are they gonna take pride in their process?
Rishad: I agree. There's a balance, and this is very difficult to get right between [00:08:00] launching as soon as possible with the bare bones mvp and being polished enough that it doesn't look sloppy.
Rishad: In my experience, people fairly strictly fall into two different categories. Those were the bias to action and those were the bias to plan and how you can infer this. If you ask someone, okay, let's go build a hospital, one person will say, let's do it. The person will say, well, these are the 29 million things we need to do it.
Rishad: Do you fall in the category of bias to action or bias to planning, and how has that helped you and hurt you in your life? So,
Harvey: That's a good question. Um, I feel like I'm more the pie in the sky kind of thinker. Uh, I see the vision and usually I need a business partner and I recommend usually only having one that is more of the implementer.
Harvey: And so that way between me having the vision and someone that can implement and can look at all the fine detail and [00:09:00] call me out, then together we can create a product. With that said, I think the best entrepreneur as I've been doing this over and over is to have both the visionary and the implementer, and so now I'm overly focused on how I can implement, how I can do things, because with experience now I see things differently and I feel like I can implement a lot easier just because I've learned from so many mistakes that I personally have done.
Harvey: Say
Rishad: you're looking for a business partner and you're looking for an implementer or a visionary, if you are an operator, How do you test that relationship before you go all in? How do you stress test that? Do you ask certain questions? Do you go, you know, have a have a boxing match? What do you do?
Harvey: Well, to me, my favorite phrase is the proof is in the pudding.
Harvey: If there has been some history of track record, then depending on the situation, if that track record is there, then it's easier for me to kind of take a look and see what projects they've worked and what [00:10:00] they've done and what their role. As far as the interview, I believe big on the interview. I, I do a lot of mock interviews and mock questions and, uh, group think questions and sit down with the, uh, with the person and say, okay, we have this problem.
Harvey: How would you handle it? What would you do? There's no right or wrong just to understand their thinking process. I think all of us bring something special to the table, and the one thing I have learned over and over is, as much as it sounds great to find a business partner that thinks like you and agrees with you, and everything you say is yes.
Harvey: I fair to say it's better to find someone that compliments you, someone that if you're strong in finance, but the other person's strong in medicine or depending on the business plan, you, you may need cer certain things. You, you need that counterbalance because if everything is a yes, then you may end up going down the wrong road and your business partner's saying yes, and it's just reinforcing it.
Harvey: Uh, you need that person to play devil's advocate and. Business partners, d n a. Ideally, if it could compliment you and, and I don't wanna say you wanna [00:11:00] find someone that's always disagreeing with you, I'm just saying someone that can compliment things that you're weak at, so that can help you see a different angle to the same issue.
Rishad: I completely agree with that and I had this advice with my start for my mentors. As if you are replicating your skills and attributes between you and your co-founder, then there should only be one of you. I ignored that advice and suffered because of it. Let's go back to Harvey as a child, Harvey, as an eight year old, as a 14 year old, talk to me about how has your childhood influenced you into who you
Harvey: are?
Harvey: That's a, i I think that's the key to me today actually. I wrote a book called Success Reinvention, and I'm not promoting book. I'm just mentioning it. And the book is about reinventing yourself and always being better and always pushing yourself. And, and I'm glad you asked the question because I've done so many things today, but, but what pushed me to get there, and I really think it's having a strong why.
Harvey: And what does that mean? It's just the, the hardships of my. [00:12:00] What has happened to me ranging from being kidnapped, ranging from being in a real bad poverty situation where I didn't know if the next meal was gonna happen, uh, really pushed me to make sure that I was gonna be better. And so as a first generation, American first generation college student, I wanted to make sure that I made it my best, uh, whatever that was gonna.
Harvey: And so at an early age when I was eight, it was interesting. Uh, I remember, uh, from the age five I would walk home cuz I couldn't afford a babysitter. So my mom had several jobs, had my own key, and I would just take care of myself. Um, I remember any coins that I found on the way, any money I would. Gather it.
Harvey: Even if I found it, you know, down the street, I would just gather any pennies and put it on my mom's nightstand cuz I thought that was helping her. When sh uh, when I had my first job is with the New York Times and they would give me a certain amount of extra newspapers to give away. Um, and I didn't, I actually would go, , this was crazy, at age 12 to the subway system and stand in front of, [00:13:00] uh, the station and just, uh, sell the newspaper for like five, 10 cents less than whatever it was going for, just to have that extra cash.
Harvey: And then fast forward, uh, when I was 16, I started my own first, my first, uh, vitamin company. And I was basically, uh, made a deal with. Uh, health food store owner, and I said, Hey, I noticed these invoices say that if you buy more, you get more of a discount. What if I get you to these numbers? Can you gimme part of that discount so I can sell it to others and make money on the margin?
Harvey: And believe it or not, he said yes. And that actually paid for my first car, my first insurance. And that at, at that time in my life, I was actually, uh, giving my mom money every week, uh, for my extra cash that I was making. Do
Rishad: you think entrepreneurship is innate or is it.
Harvey: I laugh because I literally, uh, just wrote an article about this and I've been studying this.
Harvey: This is a awesome question and I love this. Um, it's a hard question and complex, so let's go down that road. [00:14:00] Uh, from a genetic point of view, uh, yes, there are some attributes that cause you to be more aggressive and can cause you to pull the trigger, whereas someone genetically may look at the same situation and say, no, I, I'm not going down that path.
Harvey: And I feel like you need a little bit of that because you need that courage to be able to pull the trigger. If not, you may have an amazing idea, but it just stays in your brain and you allow someone else to come up with the same idea and profit. From an environmental point of view, I feel like we're really, really blessed.
Harvey: We, we have studied, we can, we have proven that we have grit. We have proven that we have the brain power to understand complex, uh, problems and apply them. And so I feel like from an environmental point of view, You can make two arguments. Uh, one is that genetic really because you just said your brain power and that's may be more inherited into your brain.
Harvey: Or is it the environment because we are around such amazing people. I remember going to medical school, just being in awe of my professors and [00:15:00] residents and thinking, man, these guys are so brilliant. But then we kind of surround ourselves with these, uh, individuals and I think in essence, our vocabulary gets better.
Harvey: Our ways of thinkings are challeng. And it makes us a better person. And so from an environmental point of view, uh, we have, uh, easier access to, uh, capital as opposed to someone else. We can call some colleagues and say, Hey, would you like to invest in this startup? Or we have the, the network, the other part of it from an environment, um, having that MD or having those initials automatically to some degree opens the.
Harvey: For us, whereas other people try that same approach and they cannot make it. And so I argue that it's actually a combination of both. Um, and then the last thing in my soapbox that I always tell physicians, I think from a grit point of view, we work so hard to get those initials and get to that place. And I often think we forget the fundamentals.
Harvey: And that is our goals. You know, our goal is to become a doctor. And when we get there, I feel like a [00:16:00] lot of physicians, including myself, we sometimes. And we stop reinventing ourself and we stop growing. And so I think, uh, from a genetic point of view, if, uh, you're pushing yourself, but then an environment you got, you stop growing.
Harvey: I think it's important to remember you gotta keep growing.
Rishad: I k cannot agree more with that. Our arrival fallacy is something we teach our students and our education system does a great disservice. We are told once you're an attending, things will be, But things are generally not better once you get there.
Rishad: I, I think the old adage, the journey is, the destination ranks true. It's something I'm trying to live my life by. The Japanese concept of icky guy is something I'm really fond of, and it's intersection of what you're obsessed with. They're passionate about what you love to do. What you're good at and what the world will pay you for
Rishad: Have you found [00:17:00] your IY guy, Harvey, and if so, what
Harvey: is it? Uh, I have a tough one with that one. And because healthcare, from an ethical point of view, I, I don't ever wanna make money from patients. I, I remember specifically getting my first paycheck, and I actually felt guilty because I was getting paid to take care of people.
Harvey: And, and because of my background, because how I grew up, I knew that it was difficult. And so, to answer your question, how have I found it? Yes and no. I love medicine. I love healthcare. And so in that respect, I'm still doing it. The difference is how I'm making that passion and how I'm making money is I'm focused now on digital health.
Harvey: And so, uh, you know, startups, ai, uh, telemedicine, those are the things that I'm focused because those are the things that excite me. And those are the things that I can, uh, continue to read, continue to learn, continue to grow. And I'm able to be a consultant now for other companies that ask me for that advice, and I'm able [00:18:00] to make a profit on that.
Harvey: So from that extent, maybe I.
Rishad: What do you think is the biggest problem in
Harvey: healthcare Harvey? Oh my gosh, so many facets. That's a hard one again, for me, I, I, I just see so many issues ranging from, you know, uh, the patient care, the long wait times, the quality of care, how much time patients are spending with their doctors down to, uh, mental health bothers me in the sense that.
Harvey: Being an ER doctor, having patients with mental health, having them unfortunately, uh, uh, boarded in the ER and just there for hours waiting for a healthcare provider to help them with their mental state and not being able to, uh, give them the resources because I was waiting on, you know, the local government or the local city to bring a, a healthcare provider to help them take 'em to a facility where they needed help.
Harvey: I think that's a huge hold in in our healthcare system. that that must be addressed to help individuals that are in need. And, [00:19:00] and especially post covid, uh, mental health issues have only gotten worse. And so I wanna make sure that that's one thing that we can't address. And I, I am seeing a lot of interesting, uh, AI projects and digital projects coming out and about that I think will help, uh, these individual.
Rishad: You said you felt guilty from making money by seeing patients. I would infer from that. That you think healthcare delivery should not be profitable? Profits are important to drive innovation and make the healthcare system more efficient. Being from the Canadian system, it's, it's, it's a very inefficient system and for the most part it is non-profitable are parts that are.
Rishad: Do you think healthcare should be profitable? If so, which parts of healthcare should it be, biotech and pharma should be profitable and care delivery not? And if that's the case, how would that reflect into salaries for [00:20:00] physicians versus scientists?
Harvey: Yeah, no, I love the, I love the question, and it's a good ethical question.
Harvey: I honestly struggle with that. I mean, I totally agree. We need to have profit margins in order to, uh, innovate, in order to create, uh, I would not want to cut. Physician salaries, because guess what? Eventually if you cut it so down to nothing, then we are not gonna have these amazing leaders to take care of us as we get older.
Harvey: So there should be some profit. The question is, what is the right amount? Uh, I know that I always see these studies and I'm not gonna remember how much, but I know that when you look at the top healthcare providers in the United States, uh, insurance wise, and you see what the CEOs make, it's usually in the millions and their options are in the ridiculous millions.
Harvey: And I think, wow, if these insurance companies are making that much, uh, money, then to me, I, I worry them, uh, what's happening because they're probably denying patients care. They're probably not paying for the full care. And I feel like a lot of that [00:21:00] money's going to them. And I know people are cringing when they hear that, but, but it worries me as a society that we need to figure out how, how to best motivate everyone, but also have the refund, uh, funds to help everyone.
Rishad: I completely agree. Let's go move forward to your 17 years outta medical school and you start an mba. Tell me about that decision and what advice do you have Physicians who are around the same time, maybe 10 to 15 years outta medical school, would you recommend an MBA for them?
Harvey: Excellent question. I feel like by the time I went to get my mba, I all my, excuse me, all my business partners and friends that knew me well, every single one of them discouraged me from going to back to school because they kept telling me, Hey Harvey, you have what's called a street mba.
Harvey: You're wasting your time. And I struggled with that. Uh, my advice is it depends on what your end goal. Do [00:22:00] you need those initials or do, can you get away with not having those initials and still having the same, uh, amount of experience? For me personally, having the street N B A helped me because when I went to get my M B A, I felt like I understood the concepts.
Harvey: I, it was fun to me because at times I would do things and I didn't know why I did it. But then when they kinda explained the theory behind it and why they did it, I said, huh. Okay, that makes sense why I've been doing this a certain way. I didn't even know I did that. And so that was just reinforcement.
Harvey: But then the other part that was fun for me is just the education and, and seeing the different angle from an academic point of view. And so for me personally, I've wanted to have those initials after my name because, uh, personally, I, I kept feeling like every time I introduced myself, somebody would say, oh, Harvey Castro, great doctor, blah, blah, blah.
Harvey: And ironically I wanted to be introduced as Dr. Castro, but also businessman. And I felt like those initials I needed to get through the [00:23:00] doors and not be looked at as a doctor, but looked at as a doctor that understands business. And that's why I did. And so my advice to others is, um, twofold. Number one, do you need it?
Harvey: Probably not. Number two, do you, it all depends on your goals. So if your goal is a certain amount, then you need, you may. The other thing I'm gonna challenge everybody is, um, I think that our, by the time we have grandkids and those guys are out, uh, getting their MBA slash mba, I would argue that degrees are gonna be less of a, a impact than it is today.
Harvey: I'm gonna argue that, uh, they'll be more online learning, more equivalent of a YouTube, that people will go through a course. Say they have their mba, but they may not have the, the initials, but the education is getting to a point out there that they will have an MBA in my eyes, if that makes sense.
Rishad: Yeah, that makes sense.
Rishad: You mentioned your kids and grandkids. Grit and perseverance is something I'm [00:24:00] struggling with, so I have not have as hard a life as you. I grew up in India. We didn't, we were not rich. There is some abuse involved in my life, which I haven't talked about yet on the podcast. But I would say people, there are people who have had much harder lives than myself.
Rishad: My kids have a fairly luxurious life. We live in a great neighborhood. You know, we have a nice car and they can essentially have anything they want whenever they wanted, within reason. Do grit and perseverance require overcoming obstacles or do they require a loving household and if they require overcoming obstacles?
Rishad: What is your parenting philosophy and how are you ensuring your kids have perseverance and grit? [00:25:00]
Harvey: I love that question. Uh, actually , it's almost like you read my mind. It's weird. Um, I have been struggling with that particular question, and here's how I see it. We are blessed that I have been able to provide a different life for my children that I didn't have, for better or worse, that life causes blinders on my children.
Harvey: To the point where one of my kids at one point said, Hey, I want to go live in New York City where you grew up. And I thought, oh my gosh, if you lived there, they would eat you alive. You, you have no idea of the world. Uh, you've been sheltered, living in a suburban America and, and you really don't understand.
Harvey: And so I have my parenting style. It's tough love. Uh, I recently remarried and my wife is the perfect can of balance because she's trying to do what you just said. Make sure that I'm giving the children that support, uh, that [00:26:00] love, which I have. But the part that I struggle with is I create, uh, I try to push a need.
Harvey: I try not to give 'em everything they ask for, and I try to push 'em to the extent that it. Uh, avoid in them so that they have to go out and have grit and figure things out. Um, and I know some people may not agree with that, but I just. Do not want to raise my children to the point where they're out in the world and they struggle and they don't understand the world.
Harvey: And so I figure, um, my parenting skills has been a little odd. For example, when we go on road trips, At a very, very young age. They were like, you know, four or five, seven years old. I have four kids. I would literally drive and say, okay, let's pick a business. And we, they see a gas station. I'd say, okay, gas station.
Harvey: How can we make money there? And then I kind go through supply and demand and how to do marketing and, and kind of explain these [00:27:00] concepts. And then Rich that port that, that I mentioned, the, the fundamentals as they were growing up, I would kind of teach them indirectly through stories. And so my parenting style.
Harvey: Now that they're older, uh, my oldest is in college and he's like, Hey dad. He picked up very, very expensive college. And he's like, Hey, dad, I I want you to pay for college. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna help you, but I need you to understand that there's debt, there's loans, there's, uh, you are gonna have to go and figure this out.
Harvey: And so I pushed him, um, because I figure. He needs to have that grit, he needs to have that understanding that he just can't go and buy whatever it is he needs to actually gain it and earn it. And so, uh, unintentionally he ended up and I don't agree with this, but I'm just gonna share the story cuz it's kind of comical.
Harvey: He ended up, um, playing poker. And he ended up doing very well to the point where now he's paying for his own college, uh, through [00:28:00] his poker. Now do I agree with it? No, but I do like the fundamentals, which is he felt a problem, it pushed him to a solution and he's doing well using his, uh, mathematical skills and probability, and he's actually doing well and.
Harvey: You know, am I a bad parent? I don't know. Maybe I, I, I should have given them the full ride and say, here, son, here you go. Or maybe I should have been tough in what I call tough love. And so that's a tough one. .
Rishad: I like the way of thinking. When people hear tough love, they focus on the tough and not on the love part of the phrase, providing your kids with a strong base so they know if they fall, you're there to catch them as important, but not handing them everything is equally important as well.
Harvey: Yeah. And I'm, I'm trying my best to support them emotionally. Know that they're not, I'm not gonna let them, uh, die. With that said, I know others are gonna cringe, and I know my wife cringes when I say this, I'm like, if my son messes up really bad, I'm gonna let [00:29:00] him fall and I'm gonna let him fall really hard and deep and.
Harvey: will I let him die and all that? No, but, but I would let him just suffer. Um, because I feel like that suffering, um, is that part of where it's tough love? Like I'm not gonna let him, I'm not gonna abandon him, but I think him being in that, him or her in the future, whoever being in that low PO point in their life, that's gonna give him that grit to say, you know what, I don't like this.
Harvey: I'm gonna, I'm gonna always make better decisions. And, and that's the part where I would, you know, let them fall, but then quickly jump in and catch 'em and help 'em back, and then help 'em get to that.
Rishad: Harvey, how did you learn to write? How did you learn to speak in an eloquent manner? Growing up, I was told I am analytical.
Rishad: I am not creative. I remember entering in an art competition and I was almost made fun of by teachers. I do paint now as well, but it took a lot of unlearning and redefining who I am to myself to allow my creative site [00:30:00] and podcasting. As a creative editor, I would say, Were you always creative? And how did you learn to write?
Rishad: And did you always want to write a book? If not, what changed?
Harvey: You know, I, I suck at writing , honestly. I, uh, I'm horrible. I think, uh, what helped is I was so
Rishad: passionate about, I would disagree with that, Harvey, but, uh, you continue , I would disagree that you suck in writing .
Harvey: So I, I'm so passionate about, uh, my first book that I, I, it, it literally took me like, Seven, eight years to write it cuz I was just so passionate about it.
Harvey: I wanted to just pour my stories, motivate people and I, I was just like, I put heart and soul and how I did better. Now with technology, I'm cheating with Grammarly cuz like, you know, I, I, I literally have a horrible upbringing. I, uh, cut outta school. I. almost failed, like three different grades. So my, my grammar's not the best, but thank God for Grammarly, [00:31:00] cuz it kind of shows me what I'm doing right, wrong, and then I'm learning from it and able to adjust and, and, and write better.
Harvey: And so how things have changed, um, you know, to give a blunt example, when I did my next book, which was chat sheet PT in healthcare, my goal wasn't necessarily being eloquent and flowing. My goal was more. I have a problem, which is healthcare. I have a possible solution with the chat G P T. Let me get this book out before.
Harvey: It's better to be on the forefront than in the back end. And that was my main goal. Now that I'm, I'm literally just submitted the second book for chat t, it's got a different angle now. It's from a patient's point of view, I've taken more time, I'm adding more information that one flows better, that is a better reflection of who I am.
Harvey: And now I'm doing a third book, which I'll announce probably next month, that I'm really passionate about. And it's something that I had already written back last year, but I'm. Fix and edit and change for next year. So, have [00:32:00] I been always good at this? I'll, I'll give another example. Um, I hated being on tv.
Harvey: I hated giving talks, uh, to the point where my hands would get clammy and wet. Uh, but now I, I actually enjoy, uh, doing it. And I think it's just been that, uh, being on the forefront. Uh, there was a time, uh, my first medical. They needed an ER doctor. And all the doctors pointed to me and I said, okay. And I started doing it.
Harvey: And I think just practice, uh, when Covid happened, um, I was, I'm not exaggerating, I was on TV over a hundred times and most of that was all live TV and talk about not making mistakes and being under pressure. And then on top of that, I started doing it in the Spanish network. And I, I don't speak Spanish every day, but I do speak it, um, and talk about pressure there, talking about medical Spanish and live tv.
Harvey: In another language. Uh, that was challenging. But I think doing all that it it, it made it fun. And, and I think the last part I was gonna say is just being around doctors and healthcare professionals, hearing their vocabulary, uh, has [00:33:00] lifted my vocabulary. There's times my wife makes fun of me, cause I'll, I'll drop a word or two and she's like, Where the heck did that come from?
Harvey: And it's just, I guess it's this whole medical care that we get. You know, it's, I'm sure when you went through med school, you hear all the, the stories about Vango and his dig, uh, dig toxin, uh, toxins and how it influences our, you know, that kind of fun stuff that we, we all know these stories, but you know, when you talk with someone else, we're like, oh, where did that come from?
Rishad: let's get into ai. And he. And let's get into, if the goal is to provide ubiquitous access to healthcare, if the goal is for the quality of Mayo Clinic to be available worldwide, I would argue that we should move towards a world where AI does replace physicians because we will never train enough quality physicians to provide that care.
Rishad: What are your thoughts on AI and healthcare and how we can. Best move [00:34:00] forward and optimize healthcare to use ai.
Harvey: I think AI is in its still infancy. With that said, I think it's an amazing tool. I think, uh, the honest difference is it's gonna lower the price of care in the sense that, for example, uh, reading x-rays, reading radiology, uh, uh, CT scans, the AI is able to look at this and it's able to now allow a doctor to be more efficient.
Harvey: So with time, if you increase that efficiency, you can make the argument that you can start lowering the price because now they're not. Spend as much time. So as a big picture, I feel like this is what's gonna be happening in healthcare. I think this is how we are going to lower the care, lower the price of care, because we're able to use these tools.
Harvey: Um, not that I'm promoting any particular company, but I'm starting to, I won't even mention the company, but I've, I'm starting to see, uh, platforms that allows, uh, certain procedures to be taken outside of the hospital and start being done at home. And [00:35:00] one of 'em is, I've seen a company that does ultra.
Harvey: And what they're doing with the ultrasound is, is they're using AI to teach the layman person how to do ultrasounds on themselves and basically allowing those pictures to be sent to the provider and then the provider knows what's going on. So those kind of tools, I'm thinking that's gonna be the feature and it's gonna lower the price of healthcare and it's gonna help us.
Harvey: I would love to know
Rishad: the name of that company, cuz that sounds amazing.
Harvey: Yeah, I'll share it with you. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going blank right now, but I'll, I'll, I'll share, I'll send it to you and you can post if you want for sure. Sure.
Rishad: Why did you start Deep Pocket Series Harvey?
Harvey: That's a good question. I'll never forget.
Harvey: I got my first iPhone and I got in front, uh, I was, see, I was called, unfortunately, coding a patient, and I remember telling the nurse, Hey, we need to start this strip. And I told her what it was, and she's like, one. She got this big dictionary book out looking and then she flipped through it and took it forever.
Harvey: And [00:36:00] then finally she found a drip amount and, and started it. And I thought, this, this gotta be a better way. And so I created the first IV app med, it was called IV Meds on the App Store. Hit the one top 10 apps in the world. and how I started it is basically from that story, from that I thought, you know, I can start working on healthcare apps that will help, uh, patients.
Harvey: And so being a doctor and being an entrepreneur, I literally taught myself how to program the first one. And then after that it made so much money that I started hiring a team to help me with the following apps. And so it, it was a fun project. The best
Rishad: startups are, bro, are born from founders experiencing the problem deeply.
Rishad: Yeah. That, that's a good story. Tell me about Trusted Medical and why do you think hospitals have such a difficult time recruiting and retaining physicians?
Harvey: Good question. So trusted medical. Uh, I was blessed in that I had started, uh, probably at that point about [00:37:00] eight to 10 different freestanding ERs, uh, for other companies.
Harvey: So I knew how to start these ERs. And I knew the billing, I knew the process. I knew all the ins and outs, and I was a consultant for big companies. And then I thought, why not start my own company? And so I created Trusted Medical Centers, had a business partner that, like we talked about, uh, luckily for me, I didn't think about it at the time, but she was an implementer.
Harvey: I was more the visionary and together we were able to create the brand, create the marketing, uh, get the funding. Um, and we started with one and ended with eight. And so the goal was I took advantage that the hospital system, um, and I say advantage in a nice way, they were not doing a good. And I thought I could do a better personalized concierge care.
Harvey: And so I created the business model thinking, let me teach every person that ever interacts with the patient how to give a better care. So down from registration to billing to how the doctors act that I had, all the [00:38:00] doctors at one point wear ties when they see patients and they would be dressed up. Um, and then anytime we had a pediatric patient, I would tell 'em they had to take off their white coat and, and come in.
Harvey: And so I did all these things that were different that a big hospital system couldn't do. And then my favorite phrase is, every time um, I wanted to change things, I could change 'em overnight. And so I could literally go to the hospital administrator across the street and say, Hey, we're about to do this.
Harvey: Let him know, do it. And he couldn't act fast enough to change things, cuz I knew he had to go to corporate, he had to go through all these channels. And by the time he made changes, I'm already ahead. And so that was really special to me cuz I was able to help patients and do things in a better way.
Rishad: Speed of iteration is something that's quoted often for startup success and it's something big companies lose as they grow.
Rishad: Do you agree with that statement? And what do you think hospitals can learn from startups?[00:39:00]
Harvey: Speed to market is huge. I, I always try my best if I do, uh, things on my own. I try to be the first to market and I try to come up with ideas that are first to market that no one else has on purpose so that I can beat people.
Rishad: Let's talk about Spring Tide ventures. How did that opportunity come to be and what advice do you have to physicians who want to transition to venture?
Harvey: So I, I was blessed. Um, I have stayed in my niche, which is healthcare, and so as an investor, uh, I started looking at different VC companies out there and how to best invest.
Harvey: And so originally I started as an investor and I started investing in their fund. And that relationship became interesting because as things, uh, as an administrator of a hospital system and, [00:40:00] uh, owner and entrepreneur, things would fall on my lap and I would literally call them and say, Hey, you may wanna look at this, or, Hey, the future's coming on this particular entity and you may wanna look at businesses.
Harvey: And that. And then eventually he started emailing me back saying, Hey, uh, this one recommendation, you're right. And then eventually they said, Here's a business proposal, here's what's going on. Can you evaluate this and tell us what you think? And for me that was perfect because I enjoyed the space. So then I became more of a reviewer of, uh, of different businesses and, and advisor to say, Hey, look at this, look at that.
Harvey: And so that's kind of how it came to be, which was great cuz I could use my MD and I could use my m MBA and I can use my experience and, and kind of give that added value to those.
Rishad: Did you start by Angel investing or did you start by investing in funds? And if you started by Angel Investing, how did you get deal flow?
Rishad: I think.
Harvey: Honestly, it's been at the, [00:41:00] uh, deep Pocket series was all self-funded, so I did it all on my own. Um, I never really ventured out venture capitalists or anything like that. Uh, with bigger entities. I, I knew that I could not self-fund it. So when I would do, I, I did do a one-off project and I got a group of.
Harvey: Doctors, I basically handpicked a group of doctors, said, these are the numbers, this is the need. Um, I need everybody to bring X amount of cash to the table and depending how much cash will determine your equity and that deal. Thank God it happened because it did well and we were all able to. Um, continue.
Harvey: And so it was a good deal in the sense that we were, we, we didn't have to have a third party involved, which I'm glad, um, with trusted. We did have a company come in and fund, uh, a part of it. And then another part was for the physician. So not getting into too much detail, I, I've had to, another ventures go into angel investing or other sources.[00:42:00]
Rishad: Why do you think cannabis is somewhat shunned in the medical ecosystem? It has some clear benefits, but it's adoption remains very poor in the physician community. Yeah, I
Harvey: agree. Uh, I think, I think it's been shn because of the stigmatism behind it and because of the stigmatism. It's almost to some degree, the group think in the sense that, you know, the first thing that we were told is don't do it.
Harvey: It's negative. And so right after that, anything after that, it's just. As a healthcare professional, we can look at the science, we can look at, um, the way it's used and, and I'm glad that there is medicinal marijuana and there's different indications and different states are opening up and different countries are allowing it.
Harvey: And the United States, it's, it is changing its laws, uh, in different states, which I'm glad. And, and I'll take it to the next level. I, I am a, an advisor for a marijuana company. Um, and what [00:43:00] I like about it is they, I'm not promoting them, but I'm just kind of sharing the, the mentality behind it cuz I love the science.
Harvey: They basically created a iPhone app. They created a little cartridge, uh, the diffuser, and then you basically load the cart. Um, and it's certain different types of, uh, cannabis in it, and then the physician can. Say, okay, this is the combination based on the patient's ailment. So if the patient has sleep issues, then it will change the combination of can that's in there so that when they use the diffuser, it gives 'em a certain type of strain more.
Harvey: And then it helps 'em with their sleep. But if they have anxiety, then they can be adjusted and then they have it for anxiety, which I think that is the right way to do it. You're giving the right dose, you're not overdoing it. Um, and so they just started clinical trials in Germany and I'm really stoked about that cuz I think that's the way to do it.
Harvey: Yeah, I agree with
Rishad: that. What is the end goal for you, Harvey? [00:44:00]
Harvey: My end goal is to , I'll, I'll summarize with this, with this story I told my, my kids say to me, uh, they say, Hey, if, if you, God forbid you're in the nursing home, we know where to find you, and it's not gonna be in your room. It's gonna be next door helping the person next to you, uh, you're gonna be a doctor to them.
Harvey: And I think that's my goal. My goal is just honestly just to continue helping, um, until the day I die. I, I enjoy this. I have, I'm passionate about healthcare. I'm passionate about what I do. Uh, the end in mind is more time with family than others. Uh, it's not really about making money. It's about having the time with my family and, and doing the things that I enjoy and passionate about.
Harvey: So that, that's my end goal. Is there anything else
Rishad: you wanna tell our
Harvey: listen. Yeah. Uh, I think it's important to find balance . I know personally I'm not doing a good job this month on it, but, uh, I think it's important to tell everybody, make sure you find balance. I know it's hard. I know when I was starting, uh, trusted medical centers, I was working all night, [00:45:00] driving two hours, getting to Dallas, working all day, and then crashing at night cuz I was exhausted and that was not balanced and I had to do it.
Harvey: So I understand there's times that we need to do things that we don't want to, but as long as you don't do that, the rest of your. That's the goal because as you said earlier in the podcast, we never know our last day and we wanna make sure we make the most of every day.
Rishad: Thank you, Harvey. This has been an absolute pleasure.
Rishad: Thanks for joining
Harvey: us. Thank you.
